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and former republican state legislator. and welcome to both of you. >> thank you. >> brown: jim jones, indisputable that the united states practiced torture. at the time the justice department said otherwise, that within very strict rules this was not torture. what made you say this was? >> well, an exhaustive study of the laws of court cases, of the practice, of interviews and the summary of all of it was it was indisputable there was torture in many cases. >> brown: just to be clear: you didn't have subpoena power here and so how were you doing it? you said by talking to people? >> wl, t staff a some of the panel members visited several countries, visited the black sites where some of these were in poland, lithuania, et cetera, they talked to officials, they talked to detainees themselves, and they did an exhaustive research of the law and the united states has even brought prosecutions for the very same things that we did in some of those sites. >> brown: david irvine, former u.s. ambassador john bolton told the kwra +*eup that "this report is completely divorced from ality." the p
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